The Coaching York Podcast (Reloaded)

Hello everyone,

Now, did anyone ever tell you that coaching is just for senior people in organisations or members of the workforce that were failing in their job? Well, if you've been following this podcast for a while, you'll know that coaching is a valuable resource for all kinds of people.
in all walks of life.

So it's also hugely valuable for people at different stages of their life and to support the whole of their lives, not just those areas that are recognised as contributing to production or the economy. And to explore some of these wider areas where coaching makes a difference, I am today in conversation with Bryony Rowntree So Bryony, welcome to the show. Thanks for having me. So professionally speaking, how do you describe yourself?

When people ask that awful question, what do you do? Honestly, probably different in different places. It's sort of in a synopsis how I explain what I do is by saying that I work with individuals and teams and groups of communities as well to open up awareness so that space is created for wiser choice. And then from there, people become more empowered, more resilient.

able to process things, have better relationships and then improve their well-being, their engagement in life, their autonomy, all those kinds of things. basis of it is supporting people to have a better relationship with themselves and the people around them, whether that's in one-to-one work or group or teamwork. Okay, so lots to explore there, which we'll be looking forward to exploring a bit later on. Before we get into that, where are you? Where am I? I'm in East Yorkshire, just outside York.

closer to family roots where I grew up than where I grew up. Okay. And I don't mind me saying so, you don't sound like you have a Yorkshire accent. So how did you end up in East Yorkshire? Yeah. So I grew up in North of London in North Hertfordshire, Hitchin, which is brilliant. It's a grow up. But after university, my mum moved out and moved to Yorkshire, which is where her side of the family are from. Finished university, I carried on as a care worker. And I went into live-in care work. So I'd been a care worker before uni.

and then through uni. Yeah, so I did live in care work. had a car. I didn't live anywhere for a year and a half. I did live in care and then in between caught up with friends and family and traveled the UK in a way I hadn't before and then lived in Tanzania for a bit to work there. And when I came back, I was offered a house share with an old Quaker friend who had been in Leeds for years and at uni. So I ended up in Leeds for 19 years or something. And now I'm out here. Well, it sounds like I got four podcasts there, but we better just finish them.

Focus on this one. right. And any family or pets to talk about? Yeah. So living with my partner, my mum, my kids who are teenagers, my mum's dog. Now, as we would expect with an experienced coach, you have a diverse range of clients and different kinds of people you work with. But I understand you also have a particular area of interest. So could you tell us more about coaching with parents and women and what makes this important to you? Yeah, absolutely.

I think when I was exploring getting into coaching, on the one hand, was, you know, I talked about connecting people more with themselves. was that I've always had this belief that we've got deep wisdom and knowledge. It's about remembering that and how to connect to it and collectively, but also individually.

But I have always believed in the deep wisdom in parenting. I've always been fascinated by it. I think when I was a young person, the only thing I really had faith that I could do was be a mum. Although I wanted to fix all the world problems, I didn't know where to start. I didn't have faith and confidence in myself in having a professional career in that way. And I've always had an interest in the way of parenting across the world differently.

but also the way people are upheld in parenting across the world differently. And, particularly sort of with us with nuclear families, although now families of all shapes and sizes like mine. Actually, a couple of things I'd like to pick up on that you mentioned. So you mentioned the different ways that people parent around the world. What did you notice, say, for example, in Tanzania, it was different about the way people parent where you were there, say, to what is might be thought typical in the UK?

Yeah, so this I think is really quite key actually, it's great question. One thing I really got to bear witness to was that, as is quite common knowledge, parenting is done by one or two people, everyone's raising everyone, whether it's on the street and children are sort of parented and upheld by people they don't know or their neighbours in terms of keeping them to boundaries but also loving support and praise and things like that.

But also the children. So even if you're the first child in a family, most people live a lot in connection with other families, whether it's their own sort of blood relatives, which a lot of people it is, or their community are living a lot closer. And I certainly as a parent myself had noticed that children seem to really learn off children about three years older than them. So in Tanzania, I was picking up on a lot that, you know, there's always children being raised by other children as well.

because most children have a lot of other children in their lives quite regularly and not just at school because at school we're put into this one age group rather than into intergenerational age groups which has impact I think. Yeah I saw that, saw that children are constantly learning from different age groups all the time so it's not just parenting, it's parenting still hard and it's still mostly you

Mostly the woman is the primary carer and if a man is left on his own as a parent there for the most part, know, aunties, know, children might go and live with another family member. That's quite normal. The other thing was the way that babies are handled. Fascinatingly, and you know me in my work, I love the embodiment thing. I work with our body. I know we've got lot of information there and how we want, we can learn how to use the body differently. But how we're touched and handled by people around us impacts how we are.

So whether you're sitting on the bus, if you're sitting on the bus in Tanzania, you may well have someone else's child on your lap. My children certainly ended up on other people's laps when we went back. But you're sitting up close and personal with people. That's quite normal. In terms of personal space, they don't have the, you could use the word issues we have. Quite often here, we like to have space between us and the next person. We expect to have bedrooms to ourselves, that kind of thing.

You know, there's a real difference in that. And then there's a difference in how people relate and connect. But the way babies are handled, handle will be much more assurance. So when I was a kid, people still say you had to hold the head of the baby and really telling you to be careful all the time. There's much less of that telling people to be careful because you're trusted to look after people well. I mean, I ended up wearing my children in slings and it was much more practical for me than bunks and things like that.

But to put a baby on your back, you have to hold them by the shoulders and swing them over around onto your back. Now, you're not holding them by the arms, so you're not going to damage the shoulder, but you're holding onto the shoulder well. And so babies are sort of what we might think, we're sort of tossed about and handle quite firmly. But actually, and I've sort of read up academically around this as well, babies, that sort of leads us to become people, to become much more sure in their bodies, know their

No, sense of self is almost stronger for it. Yeah, it has it. I just find it fascinating. Absolutely fascinating. just to pursue this a little bit further. there's more so that you've got there more of a sense of shared space and protected space, if you like. There's the famous phrase in there, an Englishman's home is his castle. A lot of coaching as is practiced and taught in the West is very much focused on the individual, individual actualisation, individual self-expression.

From your experience of having seen a more collectivist society, collectivist approach to bringing people up, how does that affect, how has that affected the way you think about coaching? Yeah, well, I think that's had an effect and also just something in the way I am from wherever that may have come from. I've always had issue with that approach of coaching and I love one-to-one coaching. But for me, the one-to-one coaching is about us learning to take responsibility and ownership for ourselves.

So that we have better relationship with ourselves because we need that first to then have capacity for other people and our other relationships and also capacity for the planet and for society and what we can do in the world. So yeah, it has had a real impact because we're not in isolation and I think there's a real danger to the more we uphold the individual in the way that sort of modern Western societies do, then that does bring a detriment to community and society and then

that brings a detriment back to the individual. Sure, okay. We'll come on in just a minute about how your work helped particular groups of people overcome challenges in their life or life stage. Can I ask you about a challenge that you mentioned yourself earlier? So you were talking about sort early in life, not having a great deal of faith about what you could become or achieve in life. You said...

something to effect of, I had faith I could be a mother, but wasn't sure what else I was going to be able to do. What happened that helped you address that challenge and overcome it? ⁓ Possibly becoming a mother. Yeah, so it's funny, I look back at my younger self and there were spaces I definitely had confidence. It was partly because it was my want to support the world was so broad.

And I didn't know what route that meant. And actually, interestingly, my psychology tutor at A level was also a life coach in the 90s. And now I think it would have been really useful when I didn't get the A level grades, I wanted to go to uni to have gone back to her. At least coaching things good, yeah, that would have helped. Yeah, what was it? was certainly I was looking into a lot of professions of how to support people, which is how I became a care worker, really, and why I considered.

nursing, I wanted to dance as well, so I ended up doing dance and psychology and thought about dance movement therapy. But then again, the thought of doing a masters where they're as capable, also the money issue, my relationship with money and the sort of socioeconomic background I come from. And I wanted to travel. I wanted to travel. It was partly fascination with people and the planet. And possibly are not ready to settle a route. I think that was the other thing. It wasn't just confidence.

So when I came back from after, you know, all the different things and lived in Tanzania, not just passing through a country looking at people's lives. I really wanted to come back to Yorkshire and I wanted, you know, in terms of the land, the earth that we grew up on, feel like, you know, this land is where I've grown up and where I feel rooted to. Because when I had became a mum, I didn't have a career. I had done various jobs and I was looking for where I could support best. I was finding my place in Leeds where I'd just moved to.

But after I became a mum, I two children, then I ended up working at a Steiner setting and running parent and child groups outdoors. So with the fire, cooking popcorn on the fire between two sifts, you have to be very careful because it sets light very easily, making chapatis and then I may, you know, making puppets and telling stories of the seasons. But the telling stories, being in touch with the seasons, being outside and having that space with parents for them to be able to talk about the challenges they were having.

with their young children and parenting. And then some of them might be having another child and that was another transition or they might be going back to work and that was another transition. And a lot of them were back at work already. And that was coming into that garden to sit around, you know, in a circle with other parents and sit around a fire and have coffee and sing some songs and let someone else lead that. It was massively important to them. And I had been one of those parents before I got the job. I just ended that group. And more and more...

had this urge of what can I do, there's something else I want to do and I came back to this idea of coaching. And it's because coaching is about, again, this supporting people to connect back to their knowing, back to themselves. They know they can find the way. It's our job to help them recognise that and figure it out. So you're in this situation where you're feeling drawn to a particular group of people with women and you can see how coaching

can be of particular value to them. So how did that come together in say your first coaching contract and what was the kind of subject that you were exploring? What was going on then? Well, would say coming back around to the supporting parents and it didn't happen very neatly because I was an antenatal education at education as well as teaching for the NCT. But at that point, my relationship finished and it was really quite difficult for a number of years.

didn't continue that. That would have been a beautiful segue into then coaching people. So what happened? Yeah, I asked around my community of women and in the primary school playground I was in at the time, which was wonderful. I was really, really blessed. was an incredible community and someone that I'd been on my coach training with as well. So I think to begin with, I started off working with three people pro bono and asked for testimonials and references back. And one of them was a parent, certainly.

One of them wasn't at that point. They were a professional, creative. That professional wanted to go in and do their own thing. They wanted to go freelance. And the other one was about, certainly about balance. It was about connecting to who they were and showing up in their way and trusting themselves. And then as I started to work with more people, it was finding confidence in voice, more about trusting themselves. And to begin with, I was coaching mostly women. And some of them were parents.

And there were parents of different ages as well, so completely different phases of life. But when I was working with parents with mothers, it became quite quickly apparent how invaluable it was, this space that was for them, because they were holding all these other people and things in life, whether it was their own business or a job in an organization, the partners, the kids, the household.

I was ⁓ quite often and I felt like I was doing something quite different to how coaching is generally marketed about, you know, you're in this place and then what the options, where do want to get to? And then this forward the action. And I know not all coaches coach like that at all, but it's quite often talked about in that way. coaching is often quite a messy, wonderfully messy productive space. But I felt that a lot of the time what I was doing was having a space that these women could come in, put all the balls down when they were at a point where they felt they were going to drop everything if they didn't put them down.

and then having that permission to do that. And then from there, giving themselves some grace, learning to give themselves some grace is something that often comes up quite a lot. So it's definitely been a sort of process of coming back to this. And it was actually conversation with the Women's Network at University of Leeds that really pulled it out. So it was talking with women, it was talking in playgrounds, it was talking with the Women's Network and what support people need and where's the gap?

the gap. when you've got yourself into a conversation with someone or somebody's come to you and they've said this is where I'm at in life, this is something that I want to change, whatever, you're then describing what a professional or I don't know if you just if you didn't describe it as a professional relationship maybe that's not the way you describe it, you're describing a relationship with somebody and you say well if you spend some time with me something will happen. How do you frame that? How do you introduce that to people?

It depends what they said to me, I guess they talk about what they want to get out of coaching. So I would respond to how they how we might work together in that instance. I quite often would, you know, talk about my job being to ask questions and to stay curious and to hold the space. I talk about safety a lot because for me, safety is an incredibly important thing, which is why, as you know, I trained as a mental health first aider before I became an instructor as well, because of my safeguarding background, I want this space that I hold to be really safe for people.

You know, there are times as coaches we have to pause and check in coaching safe and appropriate for this person at the time, do they need another kind of support and having that conversation with them. But I think because of the way I am, because of the way I work, I've really never been afraid of emotion. And because I'm working with people who are supporting a lot of others, whether that's as a parent or otherwise, and quite often as well, it might be kind of like a middle manager, I suppose, the parent who's supporting teenagers or children.

and their aging parents. So there quite often is a big emotional strain. So there needs to be a space for that to be able to come out so that that person can process. So I will talk about holding space. And if we're in the room, there'll be a box of tissues, but I'm not going to pass them to someone. You know, they need to be where they're at. Same if they needed to go to laugh or a good swear about something. You know, we let people process things as coaches, don't we? I do talk about

the checking with the body. And I work without a screen when I work remotely. So me listening out for the smiling, which you can hear on the phone with people quite often me listening out for. I them on putting their head in their hands, you know, those sorts of things you can often hear or I can hear something happening in which case it's up to them to tell, you know, say what's happening in your body and they'll quite often be they might be your

sort of in connection with their body already and we won't be surprised by that but a lot of people are surprised by that and it's new information for them. So we'll talk through that. I always do some coaching with someone when we first talk about coaching. You mentioned that one of the discoveries that people will make in that coaching journey so they might discover that there are this is wonderful source of information in their body they didn't realise they had that they know how they know that something they can take forward.

Can you think of maybe one or two other typical areas of discovery that people make? Yeah, well, we've had this causation for analogies and metaphors. It opens up, unlocks the sort of creative and different channeling and that definitely, I think really, really helps. And using those with the different parts of ourselves, so people might talk about wise leader or the sort of saboteur or gremlin voices, imposter syndrome. Some people getting a sort of creative vision of that or naming of that can help.

And they're like, oh, yeah. And it's easier to hijack, you know, the imposter syndrome, it's easier to hijack for some people if they it's got a name or it looks like they're all teacher from geography or whatever it was. But the other thing is just I love the simplicity of reflecting back. don't know if you find this, but, know, some I've had a few numerous times when I asked whatever version of the question at the end, you know, questions at the end.

what are you taking away? What's different now? And people have said to me a few times, it's that thing you said, Bryony, and they'll repeat it. And it's not, it wasn't my words, you know, I'll be clear about this, but all I was doing is reflecting back something they said. And that was massive that they heard themselves. And again, this is what I think a lot of the work we do is supporting people to listen well to themselves.

So I think that's a big thing. And quite often people, when I ask them at the beginning of sessions, what do you want from me today? Quite often they'll say, you know, just keep asking the question you ask, but also that mirroring back that you give me. Because they're learning so much about themselves from me. You know, the little bits of language, the little nuances and things as well. Yeah. Why did you pick that word as opposed to another one or that intonation? Yes. I'm going to ask about the strap line in a minute, because I was fascinated by this.

Just whilst we were talking about you talking about things that people will say to you at the end of a session, just to take that a bit further, how do you know when you've got to the end of a coaching relationship?

Well, most of the, yeah, when I check in with myself, usually my body is telling me something first. So if it's the end of relationship or if it feels like we're getting to boundaries that don't feel that safe or things like that, it's usually like I'm checking my body. I just feel less useful, I think is part of it. I feel less useful and or I might be hearing them saying the things that in that first session when I've said, what will you be telling me? They're saying those things.

So I think that's the first check-in and acknowledgement is like, hang on a minute, know, three months ago, six months ago, you were saying that this is what you wanted to be saying. You're doing this now, you're saying this. And actually four decisions ago, you had started unfolding that. And I think this is, again, the work we talk about coaching, making these big changes and our hard moments. And for me, the way it seems to show up is in just shifting things by 3%. And then you get this ripple.

And the ripple keeps going and that actually builds in his much more sustainable work. And then a few months later, they go, hang on a minute, I'm doing it. I'm being this person that I wanted to be and believe that I could be. And I feel free around showing up as me. All those kinds of things. You know, someone shifting from not being, literally physically not being able to say I trust myself. To being able to stand there and openly say I trust myself, things like that. And that's the place we check in.

And sometimes there is like, they've got to that place and now they can see another horizon they want to work towards.

Other times it's an acknowledgement that, we really enjoy this time and that's lovely, but actually it's time to close and I think closing sessions can be incredibly, what's the word, incredibly special, incredibly touching. Yeah, I mean, it's all an honour, but to in a closing session to be able to acknowledge someone and to hear them acknowledge themselves.

Do you have a typical closing thought you like to leave people with? Is there something you like to say to people at the end of a coaching relationship? No, it's all sort of in response to where they've been and what we've... I think at the beginning of a closing session, I always offer up the way that it could go. Yeah, I think I particularly like to encourage them to acknowledge where what's different now, what they've shifted, how they've enabled themselves to do that and what next.

And thinking about beyond the end, are there any clients who you've kept in touch with or who've got back to you after a period of time? Said, we worked X number of months ago, years ago, whatever, and this is the enduring benefit of that working relationship. Yeah, so I've got a few that would, a couple that still do get back in touch and others in the past that have sort of in the year or two after we've stopped working.

Around the turn of the year, midwinter, I tend to offer up four to six coaching slots for specific reflective turn of the year sessions that are cheaper than my normal sessions, but it's out through my newsletter. So it's existing clients. If have one or two, they'll always book one of those. I'm getting really quick. And then, there's some other sometimes, other times I just get the odd lovely email letting me know what's happened with that thing we were working on.

I mean, lot of our work we do is that awareness and then people's learning to respond in the way they want to rather than those old patterns of reaction. Someone will just let me know something happened recently and I managed to respond in a way and it's because of the work we did together. In fact, one of my early clients got promoted during maternity leave, which most people get demoted during maternity, even though it's not supposed to happen.

or devalue, you know, just not seen with the same value. But I had a client who was promoted during return to leave and she got back in touch to say that's because of the work we did that I was able to go from them and make that happen. brilliant. Can I just ask you about your strap line, which you very kindly sent me in advance? Root, deep, stand strong and branch out, which struck me as being quite horticultural. So what inspired a root, deep, stand strong, branch out?

Trees, definitely trees. Partly because of the work I'd done earlier at the Stein, you know, the parent and child group, but, and partly because of my embodiment work and my complete faith, I think I've always had work as long as I can remember, interconnectedness of us and all things and the importance of that. And because I love an analogy, as you know, just became more more apparent and I can't remember what point or how it sort of unearthed, I suppose.

that the work I do is so relating to a tree being well rooted, well rooted by our values. ⁓ When we know our values, me, it's a like an inner compass. We can find our way, but we're also held by those things. That a sense of how self of being comfortable to be with ourselves and to claim that space. But we can also pull nourishment up through our roots. can connect.

with the rest of life through roots. And then standing strong is if once those roots are in place, we can then stand strong, choose how we grow. And then the branching out is about, you know, how do I want to flourish? What do I want to reach out? What do I want to blossom and fruit and bring harvest into this life that we're part of? But also through these branches, we offer life, know, spaces for other life coming in and that taking up space. When you look at trees, when you stand in the woods and you look up,

There's a space between the branches as well. They give each other a bit of breathing space. I mean, I'm just fascinated by it all, I thought, you know, and the connection from the roots through the fungal networks that we still have connection. I have a coaching program, a women's group coaching program that really is also a leadership program, but it's about what's called Stand In Your Space. And it's based on that sort of pathway, as it were. It's not linear. Kira Women's Project in York. So much of it is to do with sense of self.

and people being comfortable in their own skin and feeling like they can stand in that space, being able to hold boundaries, those kinds of things. So you create a, if I can put it like this, a healthy ecosystem for people to explore growth. In any ecosystem there are destructive as well as constructive forces. And if you're giving people, particularly people who may be in a particularly stressful point of life or a significant point of life,

And you've just given them the space to completely express anything and everything that's going on in their world, which will include some of the more challenging influences on them, unhealthy influences on them that they need to process. How do you kind of take care of yourself in that environment? Supervision, for one. Working on the relationships in my life and reminding myself to ask for my own help.

But also within the coaching space, remembering that it's not my work, it's theirs. So the model I was trained in, Coactive Training Institute, one of the elements of that model is holding our clients as creative, resourceful and whole. So wherever they're at, at the end of a session, trusting that they'll be OK. So I always have that conversation right at the start of our relationship. Because part of their responsibility is to tell me if they're not OK.

And this is partly why I did the training as mental health first aida and for my safeguarding background sort of supports because if they're not okay with each other conversation, I need to support them and get help at any point listening out well for whether coaching feels right for someone or not. And if something does doesn't feel right, having learnt, you know, learnt to speak to that so that we don't even get to that point. I sort of support that by part of my networking.

being networking with other practitioners, so therapists and people that I know that I could signpost people onto and knowing organizations that are out there, things like that. Okay, all right, so I've got a couple more questions for me just to, as we start to come to a close. So the first one is, what's next for you?

next? Yeah, well the term's starting. yeah, teenager into college. Yeah, to seeing how my return to work programme that I piloted at the University of Leeds last year, if that's going to be taken up there and thinking about where else that could happen. I've got another run of Standing in Space coaching programme starting week after next at Kyra Women's Project.

And I've started writing, again, writing something I didn't do when I was younger. I'm dyslexic and that got caught up as it does with confidence and, you know, dyslexia is not always the issue. Sometimes it's the confidence and the stories you make up. But I discovered that I love writing and I've been starting to write around this Stand In Your Space programme because I've also recently become a teacher on the Insight Timer app. In my coaching space, I quite often run visualisations.

So there's some that I was trained in, some that I have created myself and then quite often spontaneous ones get towards the end of a session. And I say, what do you want to use the next? You know, I feel like we've got to this point. We've got 10, 15 minutes left. And people say, can I have one of those visualizations? So I bring all the threads of what we've done. And I love it. I love it. And it's something that I was going to say, find it easy. I don't think it's easy particularly. It comes naturally to me. I feel like I'm in flow in that space. I am recording more.

visualizations for the Insight Timer app. I've got a couple on my website, but I'm doing more if I'm going to go there and writing more courses to go on there as well. And then thinking about recording the visualizations I use in the Standing in of Space program to match that with the writing and see if that could become a resource that people could use. OK, so if I say, give me a one minute visualization exercise just so I know what I might be getting myself in for. What would you do? All right.

well, we could do it on my strap line of really deep, stand strong branch out. Brilliant. Excellent. OK, are you willing to stand up? I'm willing to stand up, All right. I'm going to ask you to just sort of find your feet on the floor. ⁓

allow them to settle in to where they need to be. you're finding your body's neutral for today.

and allow your feet to start to feel rooted against the floor.

And if you feel comfortable to do so, close your eyes. If not, perhaps look out the window or soften your gaze.

And imagine your roots going down into the floor, into the earth and holding you strong.

Imagine what you notice your roots are. It might be your values, your faith, the things that hold you strong in life.

And then notice, and bringing the nourishment up.

through your roots up into your trunk.

Checking in with the calls.

and what it needs right now.

what it needs today.

And then checking in with your branches.

How are they doing in terms of flourishing? Do they feel like they're coming towards autumn and need to release some leaves? Or do they feel ready to bloom with something?

But wherever you're at, whichever season, it's just right.

just where you need to be.

You might.

Notice the movement in yourself.

And that swaying's okay as the wind comes.

with your roots holding you firm.

You can trust that you can bend and ebb and flow.

with today.

And just checking in with what the weather feels like around you today. What you need.

And then I invite you to take a good in-breath. And if you want to, stretch your arms up.

and then breathing out and letting them down.

Open your eyes.

when you're ready.

coming back to this space.

Very much. You're very welcome. In my neighbour's garden, there are two very tall silver birch trees that were planted there since we've been living here. And the thing about silver birch is it's like me, it's tall and slim. But they don't mind the wind because they're quite happy for the wind to blow because they just navigate the wind by bending with the wind. They remain strong and stable. But just thinking about it in own experience of

of life and actually some of the coaching situations I found myself in. Yes, I'll remember, Geoff, you could be like a silver birch in this moment. The wind's fine, you're okay, you're structured to handle windy situations. So that was, yeah, that was a thought that was coming to mind as we were going through that. So thank you for that. You're very welcome. How wonderful. And this is the thing, I think our bodies have all these answers, but also nature, I find when I'm struggling with things.

If I actually let myself go out and sit in the garden or go for a walk or something like that, put my hands in the air. There's always a reminder that things will be OK or I'll my way with things. Awesome kind of inspiration about how I might need to be with something. Yeah, right. love that. Rani, we'll put some information in the show notes about how to contact you and where's the best place to go to find out what you're offering and, for example, how to sign up for your newsletter.

Yes, so my website, which is my name, bryonyrowntree.com The ordering of the menu and stuff at the moment is in process of being switched around, so it might look different in a couple of weeks. So yeah, you can sign up to the newsletter there and I always put information, a little bit of thought, writing about something, but then also information about what's next on Insight Timer and things like that and things I'm offering. Excellent. And then just get in touch if you want a conversation. Right. I love a conversation.

Bryony is there a final thought you would like to leave our listeners with? Oh, good one. Well, wonderfully, I think something that clients very regularly say to me when they, you know, are checking with how they're doing at the end of a session is they feel more calm and relaxed. And I think I'm feeling that a bit now. It's the just, yeah, reminder of the importance of sitting time to tell our story, to take some reflection space, a bit of a reminder of how far I've come. What I do, why it's important.

forward so thank you. Excellent, And thank you, appreciate your time. So we'll sign off there and Rani again thanks for your time, all the best for the future as I say we'll put your details in the show notes and yeah all the best and thanks again. Thanks for having me.